Bridge collapse in Baltimore

[hjames]

Knowing these "points of weakness", could there have been any protection barriers put in place, or would this not be a consideration?

Again, just curious.


Q

I believe there was a so-called Dolphin (barrier posts) near the piers, but with the power cut on and off, apparently the ship slipped inside it before hitting the pier,
and (2) when the dolphins were installed they did not forsee ships of this much mass being involved.
The ship was 950 foot long, 116,000 tons of mass - and an amazing pile driver with all the inertia at 8 knots.

 

[Blue Shadow]

That will be answered in a couple of yrs when the investigation report is released. Anything else is armchair QB'ing.

a couple points have been mentioned
The ship is about 3 times the size of a ship from when the bridge was built
The installation of bridge support protections was not common until the Sunshine Skyway bridge collapsed in 1980. The replacement bridge had protections:


Thanks to https://www.holidaywolf.com/sunshine-skyway-bridge/ for the image.

An accident sort of waiting to happen, unfortunately.

 

[Blue Shadow]

A Google Earth shot of the supports showing it wouldn't take much of an impact to knock things loose.

I did mention the bridge-support connections were not very substantial. That is going to change with the new bridge and the nearly 50 years of more knowledge, bigger vessels, significantly more freight and other influences on the safety requirements of the replacement bridge.

 

[REMINGTON700]

Rather surprised there wasn't a tractor tug on duty nearby in this busy harbor for situations like this....or to escort near the bridge.

 

[Pio1980]

It looked also like a direct impact from the pics I have seen. The bulbus bow would have impacted the underwater structure about the same time the bullnose was impacting. Not sure how beefy something would need to be to withstand that kind of weight at 8kts.

Given the momentum of the mass----?

 

[usedto]

I love all the arm chair investigators. I heard on one news report that they think the ship may have been burning "dirty"fuel oil, which caused the temporary failure.

Time will tell, I guess.

 

[dfunghi]

Is there a decrease of speed limit when approaching obstacles like a bridge

Thousands of ships pass under that bridge in a single year, I doubt it is approached as an obstacle. It does appear the ship was not heading towards the center to pass under.

 

[jsisk]

I love all the arm chair investigators. I heard on one news report that they think the ship may have been burning "dirty"fuel oil, which caused the temporary failure.

Time will tell, I guess.

There was also reports that it had severe electrical problems while in port.

 

[motorstereo]

I love all the arm chair investigators. I heard on one news report that they think the ship may have been burning "dirty"fuel oil, which caused the temporary failure.

Time will tell, I guess.

That was the first thought that came to my mind when I saw the black smoke. With the amount of fuel those ships use I can bet they cut corners where they can. I could also be way off base on that idea to.

 

[nolasally]

This accident brings to light older infrastructure not being adaptive to the times. Same regarding guardrails that were designed to keep cars on the roadway when they weighed a 1/3 less than they do today. Weight of EV’s and SUV’s & trucks are no joke. I think interstate roadway safety is way behind the tech of modern cars. Sad that these things aren’t looked at better until it’s too late….

 

[motorstereo]

This accident brings to light older infrastructure not being adaptive to the times. Same regarding guardrails that were designed to keep cars on the roadway when they weighed a 1/3 less than they do today. Weight of EV’s and SUV’s & trucks are no joke. I think interstate roadway safety is way behind the tech of modern cars. Sad that these things aren’t looked at better until it’s too late….

Actually highway guard rails are well thought out nowadays and are designed to be replaceable and collapse somewhat on impact. The days of heavy wire rope and concrete posts have long since passed.

Anything is possible though. I have seen firsthand where a vehicle somehow jumped a Jersey barrier which are designed to deflect vehicles. The pickup then took down an aluminum lightpole behind it and somehow managed to get back on the roadway and continue it's journey. If I hadn't seen the after effects up close I would not have believed it. This caused rte 95 in New Haven Ct. (very busy highway) to be shut down because of the aluminum light pole laying across both lanes.

 

[Shominy]

Thousands of ships pass under that bridge in a single year, I doubt it is approached as an obstacle. It does appear the ship was not heading towards the center to pass under.

There was also reports that it had severe electrical problems while in port.

It goes to my map post on Page 2.

Or, perhaps the route is a taxiway to line up for the 'runway' out of the port.

 

[Ross6860]

I was wondering about three related factors.

What is the prescribed speed in that waterway.

Is there a decrease of speed limit when approaching obstacles like a bridge?

What sort of lighting is used to luminate the forward area used by a vessel of this size.


Q

No headlights on boats or ships. Just your eyes, in the dark. There are navigation lights so other ships can see you, and a big ships horn so you can hear them in the fog. They do have spotlights for emergency lighting and illuminating a dock or another ship.

Well, until the advent of radar and GPS. Have you seen of what a $1000 GPS/Sonar for a little fishing boat is capable? Now imagine the electronics on a modern freighter. They can see pretty well in the dark.

Looked like a pretty clear night. Plus they had two local Pilots on the bridge. Seeing wasn't their problem.

I have sailed on a couple 1000-footers, and quite a few 650-800 foot ones. Steam and motor vessels, but no nukes.

 

[62caddy]

The odds of the electrical interruption being unrelated to the collision are pretty remote. Heaven knows how long it may have taken for navigational equipment to reboot once power was lost, and whether control of propulsion/steering machinery may also have been affected.

At any rate, we're a long way from having all the facts so it's pointless to speculate.

 

[GChief]

At any rate, we're a long way from having all the facts so it's pointless to speculate.

^^^

 

[Blue Shadow]

I think interstate roadway safety is way behind the tech of modern cars. Sad that these things aren’t looked at better until it’s too late….

Harman Kardon is working on this. The companies that Samsung bought are deep into automotive electronics including self-driving tech.

 

[Quadman2]

Last question on this horrific event (fingers crossed).

Would there not be a back-up gen sys in place to take over when the electrical "mains" failed for navigation?


Q

 

[Pio1980]

First priority will be to clear enough wreckage to re-establish ship passage.

 

[dfunghi]

First priority will be to clear enough wreckage to re-establish ship passage.

Which will likely happen quickly. Lots of large chunks of debris should be easy to move and remove. And now, no bridge to get under, sadly.

 

[GChief]

Last question on this horrific event...fingers crossed.

Would there not be an instant back-up gen sys in place to take over when the electrical "mains" failed?


Q

Not quite instant, I work on marine EDG's, it takes some time before it takes the load. The smoke some are concerned about is probably the EDG lighting off.