Pioneer HPM-900's or Klipsch Fortes, and why if you don't mind?
- Thread starter Benzlo
- Start date
Since this thread was started, I have had the chance of measuring various drivers from Fortes, in the process of rebuilding them (reconing the woofers, replacing diaphragms in mids and tweeters).
The Forte is rated at 98dB sensitivity- but is in reality, about 94.5dB @ 1 watt. The reason it's rated at 98dB, is that the woofer is effectively 4 ohms- which makes it draw 2 watts at 2.83v, whereas an 8 ohm woofer would only draw 1 watt. This "adds" 3dB to the sensitivity, but does nothing to actually increase the efficiency- to output 98dB, it takes 2 watt of real power into the speakers. Also, being effectively 4 ohms- it can be taxing to some amps. This is quite likely part of what causes some of the issues people hear with the Forte- some amps will actually start to current-limit into the load, whereas if they had 8 ohm woofers, there wouldn't be that issue.
Also, the K23 12" woofer in the original Forte, has a real problem with response above about 600 Hz. It has a series of dips and peaks (breakup modes?), and rolls off, before the crossover point (which is 700 Hz). The K53 horn also struggles a bit, trying to get down to 700 Hz- it would be much happier with about a 900Hz crossover- but, with the woofer already starting to "check out" at 600, you can see the issue...
In contrast- the same K53 mid (and tweeter, in fact) are used in the Heresy II- and fare better there, since the K22K and other woofer variants in the Heresy have lighter-weight smooth paper cones and lightweight fabric surrounds, whereas the Forte woofer has a thick ribbed paper cone and rubber surround. The Heresy woofer actually can make it up to 800 Hz... but the Forte woofer, just isn't good there.
This is a speaker that, like the Cornwall (in fact, even more than the Cornwall- the original Cornwall woofer, though 15" instead of 12"- actually is flatter in response up to 800 Hz, than the Forte woofer), would benefit from the change to the LaScala midrange horn (larger, lower cutoff point), like is done in the "Cornscala" mod. It'd make a BIG difference in the ability of the woofer and midrange to meet seamlessly. It'd probably have to be externally mounted (it's not going to fit in the cabinet, in depth, and probably not in width, either).
Now, in the Forte II- Klipsch actually directly addressed this issue- the horn in the Forte II is larger, and goes lower. The crossover was lowered to 600 Hz, which helps avoid the woofer issues, and the horn can actually make it down to 600 Hz reasonably well (not as well as the LaScala horn, but decent).
But, the dips and rolloffs I observed with the K23 woofer and the original Forte midrange- they explain the response dip I heard, from the very first time I heard an original Forte. It's definitely enough to color some vocals, quite a lot...
Regards,
Gordon.
You say that like someone has committed a crime or something
musichal
poet emeritus
I just wonder if the OP, Benzio, ever bought either pair. He never posted back about it in this thread. Hasn't posted in years. So this is now a thread where we can argue over which we prefer between these two speakers, I guess. I'd go for the Forte, but must be honest and admit I never heard the Pioneer in question, though I did a couple in the HPM line, and owned 60s, and did not like their bass tuning.
We might as well argue over which we like better - vanilla or chocolate ice cream. Sometimes I want one and sometimes the other. What puzzles me more is the price of eggs in China. I browser-searched it once and never did find a price.
Oh, and can anyone recommend a good cat dentist in the OKC area? Jumper got hit by a car a few weeks ago, and his jaw was broken as well as several teeth. He's supposed to get the jaw wire removed tomorrow. He seems to be doing well, overall, but has gotten skinnier. However, his appetite seems to be improving as he learns to deal with the missing teeth - mostly on one side, I think.
Also, has anyone found any new bacon recipes lately?
Or maybe bought a classic muscle car?
We might as well argue over which we like better - vanilla or chocolate ice cream. Sometimes I want one and sometimes the other. What puzzles me more is the price of eggs in China. I browser-searched it once and never did find a price.
Oh, and can anyone recommend a good cat dentist in the OKC area? Jumper got hit by a car a few weeks ago, and his jaw was broken as well as several teeth. He's supposed to get the jaw wire removed tomorrow. He seems to be doing well, overall, but has gotten skinnier. However, his appetite seems to be improving as he learns to deal with the missing teeth - mostly on one side, I think.
Also, has anyone found any new bacon recipes lately?
Or maybe bought a classic muscle car?
Love it! Thanks mushical lol
